Hey John,

Good for you. I’m glad you have expressed your anger and posted it to your blog. That alone will probably save many of your Master Class students and subscribers from following the Infusionsoft route. If more marketers shared the bad experiences as well as the good ones then a lot more people would trust them when they ask you to jump on the next “big thing”. Maybe you could start a Master Class forum thread relaying you and your teams bad experiences so that we can all benefit from your wisdom and “been there, don’t do that” experiences.

Customer service is something you have always been exceptionally good at and it must have been really annoying for you that a (apparently and alledged) professional setup such as infusionsoft could be quite so bad. I too have fallen foul of “big promises, little substance” companies online and lost a fair bit of money in the process.

A lesson to us all, I feel.

Many thanks
John Chadwick

Hi
Doing a charge-back may not be your answer, that is if you are paying using a credit card like M@stercard. The reason, when you pay a merchant using your M@stercard you are also agreeing to the terms and conditions of the merchant and if part of their terms state that you are required to “talk to someone at billing” then you may not be able to cancel. As a last resort you may have to cancel your card. I hope that it is as easy as charge-back but my last experience, indeed my only one, the response was from m@stercard – you pay then you agree to the terms. Anyway good luck hope it all works out well for you John.

You’ve built a great following online by sharing your good experiences, John.
Sometimes a bad experience can be equally valuable so hats off to you for having the courage to share this bad experience with us.
I ALWAYS follow your recommendations when it comes to online services and I’ve never been disappointed.
Good luck with cancelling your account.

Hi John
Well done! One of the things we’re not good at in UK is standing up and letting everyone when we’ve had bad service. Our American cousins seem to be much better at this stuff. If it’s been lousy let people know. That’s the best way of driving change with poor providers. Hit them where it hurts – right in the wallet.

John, you were the first internet marketer that I trusted, so your credibility was already A+ for me – you’ve now gone to A+++. Too often internet marketing seems like a cosy old boys club with everyone recommending everyone else.

Keep on telling us like it is John. It’s what we need.

Best regards
Doug Prentice

Wow John! Sorry to hear about your not so good experience…it just goes to show that if you provide crappy customer service you’ll be able to find that kind of information all over the internet but if you provide good customer service, very few people talk about you.

I wonder why some of the ‘big guys’ use infusionsoft if the customer support is so bad? hmmmmm…

Good luck with the rest of the set up.

Hey John

It was good to see you at the weekend. Thanks for the info on this . Its worth noting to stay away, Id be interested to hear what solution you used instead though

Regards

Mark

Hi John,

Sorry to hear of the problems you’ve had. I had similar trouble with another company and had to resort to a chargeback as well which they disputed but I won in the end.

As an affiliate I’m promoting 5 people’s infusionsoft programs and from this side it’s good. The tracking links, tagging for life (I have about 1500 people tagged as mine) etc are great. Also it tells you the names of people who bought via your link which I like as some of them I know in forums and can thank them personally and help them out. The two tier system is good too.

I don’t intend to use it myself though partly because of the cost, but also the support issues, the email per month limit, and deliverability problems that I’ve heard of from people who use it.

I’m also interested in knowing which system you are going for, and look forward to joining your new affiliate program as it will be a great opportunity for anyone who gets in fast (especially if there’s a second tier 😉 )

Thanks

Keith

What a nightmare, how a company can get away with this in this social media age is beyond me.

It surprises me because they have so many well known Internet Marketers using their service..you’d think they’d do better.

Hope you get everything sorted out

Jerry

p.s great to meet you in Bristol btw, hope you got back ok (around the ash cloud!)

Hi John,
I am sorry to hear of the problems you are experiencing with Infusionsoft, I will remember to steer clear of them in the future. I really hope you get this all sorted out quickly as it is disgusting to treat a customer this way, especially with the prices they are charging, this should be a Rolls Royce service! Thank you for telling us about the bad stuff as well as the good, as we need to realise that things can and do go wrong, and so we can be a little more prepared for it. It was great to meet with you at the LFMpire seminar this last weekend by the way, and I feel very priviledged to have had the opportunity to meet you and to attend.

Hi John

I’ve had this problem with some companies – it was usually web hosting related companies – you can tell a lot by their poor customer service, as I think it reflects the attitude of the whole company and you don’t realize how bad it is until you go to another company where they sort out things within the hour – rather than dragging it out over days with non helpful replies implying you are being the unreasonable one.

I think the lesson we learn as the victim of bad customer service, is if you find a good provider with good customer service – stick with them like glue.

I tend to cling onto my good services now – while still looking at others – like I have one main web hosting provider that is GREAT and 3 other providers that are OKAY and a several that are CR*P – that I’d not recommend to anyone – mainly because of terrible or non existent customer service.

I have the same system for all products and services I buy on-line.

The price of the product is irrelevant to me personally – it’s the support provided (or after sales added value) I remember – I’ve been more angry at spending $15 on a product that didn’t work than one that cost $300+ and didn’t on at least one occasion I can think of – this is because one tried to fob me off with a you get what you pay for argument and the other *listened carefully* to my problem and went away and came back quickly with an answer that fixed it.

If a simple problem takes more than 3 e-mails for the customer service rep to sort out – I get suspicious THEY have a problem!

Best of luck, thanks for the info.

Zara x

Hi John,

Thanks for sharing this information with us.

I’m sure I speak for many people who follow your blogs and use your excellent products. You are famous for your honesty and integrity.

The basis of good business is selling great products and giving great customer service. The company in question bring a very poor meaning to the term Forced Continuity.

Hope you sort it out soon, and potential customers take notice of your advice. I certainly will.

Kindest regards,

Gavin McCoy

Winner The Argos Consumer Journalism Award

Hi John,

First of all let me say that it was a pleasure to meet you in Bristol at the weekend. An eye-opener in more ways than one.

But secondly thank you for this refreshingly open blog post. I have seen many marketers using this service, notably Dean Holland as mentioned in a previous comment, but to hear that they treat the very people they are supposed to be helping in this manner is terrible.

And as a marketing lesson it is invaluable as they have obviously just lost a MASSIVE amount of business through treating a highly respected, well followed marketer like yourself. You have shared your experiences and everyone who reads this post will look for an alternative solution, of that I have no doubt.

Many thanks for sharing John.

Regards

Andy Michaels

Hey John

WOW! Wasn’t expecting this mate

I thought you would successfully negotiate the problems with Infusionsoft, as you told me you were having in our recent email chats…

As you know I was looking to use them, but was aprehensive because of the nightmare stories I’ve read and not to mention the support which I have also read is disgusting.

I spoke to a guy called Corey at Infusionsoft and he was CONSTANTLY calling me back to get me to sign up – maybe now I am glad I havent.

Just a side note for you, AJ’s guy might be able to help you out with setup I dont know, but I DO KNOW you are best off using a 3rd Party Merchant Account like Authorize.net and plugging that into the InfusionSoft API.

Hope this helps, and I’m sure you’ll sort it all out in the end buddy.

Bit of a shame though as the Infusionsoft system DOES KICK ASS, lifetime cookies on all products and all autoresponder mailings… maybe we could pool our resources and make a better programme, with better support!

Good luck mate.

Regards

Ray

I have to admit, I was starting to wonder what was going on. I should have realized that it was a problem that was out of your control.

By the way, you didn’t sound nearly so angry in the video.

Hi John, sorry to hear of the nightmares you’ve been having. With regard to the charge back: like Richard said, you may have trouble there. If you paid by credit card and it is termed as a recurring bill then the only ones that can cancel it is infusionsoft. Judging from the lack of support they’ve offered so far i can’t see them cancelling it without a fight (of sorts).

John, in the time that i have followed you and your advice i have come to trust and respect you like no other internet marketer. That respect has grown 10 fold!!

A long time ago you taught me that customer services should be a priority, it’s a shame that such a large company can’t follow suit, especially when you consider the monthly charge.

Thank you for writing this post and letting us know the pitfalls of infusionsoft. I for one won’t be using them.

Respect and Regards,
Barry

Hi John

Sorry to hear about your problems with Infusionsoft and I really hope you manage to get your money back soon.

How someone can charge that much for a product and then offer such poor customer service is beyond me and thanks for warning us off buying it.

Warm Regards

Dawn Kay

Sorry to hear that. I looked at Infusionsoft before and couldn’t fathom paying $300 a month even for a good service. Now I definitely won’t be going that route. Thanks for sharing.

Hi John,

Unlucky that you lost that amount of money, hope you get it sorted but good on you for kicking ass. There are enough a..h..le. out there ripping people off. I got ripped of for over $100 last year and when you are struggling to make money online that is a lot.

I’ve heard of the company but never had/will not be now. Thanks for the post.

Regards

Donald

Hey John

That sucks! I’m very surprised to hear that too, since the majority of affiliate programs I’m registered with are through Infusionsoft. I would have assumed their support would have been otherwise.

I can totally recommend the affiliate/product management system that I use. You’re an affiliate of mine so you’ve seen the system, but may not recall.

It’s a robust php-based script, feature full, and uses PayPal (or Clickbank, but not both).

* You can pay any level of commissions (up to 100%)

* It includes a built-in support ticket system that you can also use to assign to an employee or outsourced staff.

* Has 2-tier capability (good for brokering)

* Has built-in affiliate tools section and auto-insert affiliate links in the promotional material.

* Sends affiliates email sales notifications.

* Can setup recurring memberships

* Mass Pay affiliates (if not using 100% instant PayPal)

* Tracking for advertising

* Integrates with several autoresponders including Aweber and Getresponse.. just by adding your campaign name in a field

* Kunaki integration (coming soon)

* Search function for customers and affiliates

* Instant view of transactions (daily, weekly, etc) with gross and profit totals

* Instant refund feature from within admin (coming soon)

etc

And it’s under $50 per month!

I’ve been using it for about 6 months and very happy with it, especially for the cost. He could charge $97/mo for this easily.

I’ve become friends with the creator/owner and he’s always trying to improve and add more features.

John, if you want to get in touch with the owner to get more info, just hit me up and I’ll connect you. You’ve got my email

FYI – Anyone can get a 14 day trial over at http://digitalprofits.net/go.php?a=9608&p=32 (affiliate link) or learn more at http://surefireprofitsystem.com (non affiliate link)

If I can do anything to help. Let me know.

Dave

John,

I was actually going to sign up TODAY for their 30 trial through a business partner. (He is an affiliate of theirs and swears by them)

I felt compelled to send your email and rant on to the president of Infusionsoft to let him know their treatment of you will determine whether or not we get involved. I added this note to the end below your comments.

I hope it helps you get resolution, or maybe even what you were after in the first place.

==========
Clate

I am partners with Robert Allen and Larry Loik, seems to love your product, so we were going to switch over this month.

Once before, I was going to sign up for Infusionsoft and the system (run by Infusionsoft) crashed and would not let me purchase… so I did not and until Larry recommended you as a much improved company, I stayed away.

I’m at a crossroads right now as I must set up a new system, and plan on running millions through said system.

I would love to hear from you on how you took care of John Thornhill. I doubt that you’ll get him back as a customer, but if you can make him a fan again, he would probably sell for you, just as strongly as an affiliate as he has ranted against you.

(His issue seems trivial for a coder at your company, and should be a standard part of your system for all purchasers anyway, a great opportunity to improve your standard product offering, and win back a customer and engage new customers.)

Sincerely,

—

Rick Dearr

http://rnrmarketingllc.com

http://winnerscirclenow.com/
Referral Code: 3966502

http://freecashinaflashvideo.com

http://twitter.com/rickdearr

131 E 11000 S.
Sandy, Utah 84070

801-999-4176 Home/Office
801-647-2289 cell

rickdearr.com
bestsellerrobertallen.com

=========

I’d love to hear your end result.

Hey John,

Dude, that sucks….and specially since you are paying $299 per month. If this is an automatic billing to your credit card, call your bank and lodge a complaint to have them turn off the payment.

I appreciate your rant as I think many of us have been there.

Glad to hear you got the issue resolved with another…better company.

I’m very glad you posted this John, I did a post on customer service myself after having problems with another company but its good to see you are alerting people to this problem. There are some excellent people out there who take customer service seriously (like yourself) but a few bad ones too who give a bad name to the internet marketing business.
I’m glad you finally got some sort of response but of course it doesn’t compensate you for lost business.
Good luck with the project now you can get it started.

Best Regards

Dave

John,

I have to say when I woke up this morning, checked Twitter and saw a handful of mentions to your blog post, I was disappointed to say the least. I was disappointed because I know great lengths Infusionsoft has made (and continues to make) to deliver exceptional service to all users. I am glad we’ve taken steps to resolve this as quickly as we have.

I hope you understand that we earnestly worked hard to earn your business and legitimately wanted to help you and your business grow. Our app had all the functions you desired, but it seems the point of failure was on the merchant processing needs. We have hundreds and possibly thousands of users who successfully use our app with PayPal Payflow Pro for recurring billing. I know this wasn’t what you expected and I totally understand why it was frustrating.

I would like to point out that we have been on top of the support cases you submitted. I wouldn’t exactly say we were “non-existent” nor have we pushed you off the phone. We take sincere pride in our 92% customer satisfaction and work hard to push that even higher. We will made necessary accommodations to keep our users happy and their businesses growing. We’ve listened to our customer feedback on help and have made numerous improvements to our Help Center — clearing away the unnecessary and providing more detailed articles, tutorials and helpful videos for users. To date, our support team’s support case ratings have averaged at 4.54 out of 5.0 which leads us to believe most users receive timely, satisfactory service.
We accept and apologize for the difficulty in reaching our account management team. We have sent an internal communication to advise all employees on how to properly handle such concerns. While this does not ameliorate your concerns directly, it will help us improve and provide even better service for all our users.

And one last point — and I want your readers to hold us to this – we commit to following up with every customer concern within one business day. We know it’s unacceptable to wait for a response from a modern, upstanding company and we’re stepping up to the plate to provide excellent service to everyone. We’ve grown quite a bit and that’s no excuse to accept inferior service. Conversely, we will take all the steps to hold our customers accountable once they use our app to use it successfully and accept our guidance in making the most from the app. After all, we’re both in this game and want to keep our customers happy.

I hope you understand we meant this response with the best of intentions. As I mentioned to you on Twitter, any person who endured such a bumpy experience would have been met with such compassionate and rapid service from us. We’re a different company than we were before (Google us and see what mistakes we’ve made in the past) and would like to let you know that we welcome any feedback, suggestions and improvements to make our app and service better.

Thanks for the feedback the opportunity to serve you better. Let us know if you have any questions or feedback.

Warm Regards,

Joseph Manna
Community Manager, Infusionsoft
Email: joseph.manna@infusionsoft.com
Twitter: @joemanna | @infusionsoft
Ph: (480) 289-6814

John,

I read in your post that it was a difficult decision in writing this post. As someone who has over 20 years in customer service and values good customer service highly, let me assure you, you made the right decision in letting us all know about your experience.

The Masterclass is all here to learn from your experience; good, bad or indifferent. You obviously tried for a very long time to work with them to no avail. I doubt I would have given them as much time as you did.

I used to let bad service go and not report it, but not so anymore. In reporting bad service with an individual or company, it brings to light the poor behavior so that they can hopefully correct it. If not, then it lets us know to steer clear of them and use someone else that deserves our business.

I’m glad we have such a place as the internet world to share our trials and triumphs. I’m happy they responded in your favor. Thank you for taking your valuable time to inform us.

Gratefully,

Lisa Fair
http://www.LisaFair.com
http://www.TheVintageModernHouse.com

Man John I am sorry to hear about the problems!
I was looking at them for future reference but holy S***
am I glad I didnt sign up!

I know you gave them ample time to get it together and well
…they loose
you would have been a great client and an asset to them..

hope all goes well with the new company!
rich
P.S. thanks for the help with BFM

Hey John,

What a bummer. Sorry to hear about your bad experience and I applaud you for your action in handling the situation. All I can say is that Infusionsoft customer service stinks. By the way, here in the states my credit/debit card is affiliate with my local bank. If there is any dispute, I just contact the dispute resolution depart at my bank, and they deal with the merchant on my behalf if I am not satisfied with the product or service especially if the merchant procrastinates in giving me a refund.

Sorry to hear about the problems John. I know the money is an issue but the hassle, upset and grief that goes with a problem like this I think far outways the money issues.
Good customer service is easy to talk about and I think to many companies now think words are great and some lovely text on a website will do it for them.
The old adage, Actions Speak Louder Than Words!
The truth only comes out when problems arise and as we can all see from the posts on here, your not the only one.
Forget your success online for a minute, like us your a customer, as such you should always expect good service from a company. Obviously you didn’t get it and as you said the power of the Internet is there for all to see, with how and why Infusionsoft finally replied.
Best of luck in resolving this John.

Yeah that’s always the way, you publish and suddenly the dud company comes alive – because they feel a need to justify themselves. Bit late for that. I understand your frustration with this company totally – it annoys me that aweber does not accept paypal either! In 2010 – don’t these BIG name companies realise paypal is THE international online account! Everyone wants to use! I am getting bad service from a hosting company called JustHost.com – at first they looked good so out of an option of £1.95 per month hosting 1 domain or £6.95 per month 3 domains I chose the latter. They said I could then only have 1 domain and if I want 3 I can pay £11.95 per month. I asked the price of a domain register. It’s £7.95. I asked again. It’s $14.95. Always different price structures! For the exact same thing! My account is overdue – yet they have set up continuity with paypal! Little bugbears like this – I try to set up the 2 domains I purchased extra, I’m not allowed add-ons: honestly, I wonder these companies exist at all!
So I will look for a better host, you will look for a better 1-deal. Anyone out there want to build a rock solid business I suggest you plug into this and offer a reliable AUTORESPONDER, HOSTING SERVICE AND ALL-IN-DEAL because you will get a lot of custom if you can do it right!

Hi John

Thanks for that full update of your issues and I’m pleased that the problem is now sorted. Full and frank disclosure is so very helpful to those in your masterclasses and others who read your blog.

One of the problems of internet marketing for non-techie people is dealing with the technical stuff. It is an ongoing learning process.

Hey John, that’s terrible how you were treated, I have never used Infusionsoft, it’s too expensive for me right now, but you have actually put me off using it in the future now anyway, Sally